Auttoiko Vatikaani natsirikollisia?

Seuraa 
Viestejä45973
Liittynyt3.9.2015

Jokohan Vatikaaniin kohdistuneet epäilyt natsien auttajana toisen maailmansodan jälkeen saadaan todistetuksi:

UUTINEN 19.3.
"Saksalainen toimittaja vaatii oikeudessa tiedustelupalvelu BND:tä julkistamaan natsijohtaja Adolf Eichmannia koskevan aineiston. Toimittaja uskoo, että 4 500-sivuisesta aineistosta voisi selvitä muun muassa, kuka auttoi Eichmannin pakoon ja mitä Saksa tiesi hänen olinpaikastaan.

Asiakirjat voisivat tuoda lisävalaistusta myös väitteisiin, joiden mukaan Vatikaani olisi auttanut sotarikollisia piileskelemään ja pakenemaan toisen maailmansodan jälkeen. Kirkon edustajat ovat sitkeästi kiistäneet väitteet.
Tiedustelupalvelu BND:n mukaan aineisto on pidettävä salassa, mutta vapaa toimittaja Gabriele Weber on vienyt asian oikeuden ratkaistavaksi saadakseen asiakirjat julkisiksi.

Aineisto on nyt kolmen hallinto-oikeuden tuomarin arvioitavana Leipzigissa. Weber odottaa, että ratkaisu asiaan saadaan parin kuukauden kuluessa. Hän odottaa, että ainakin osa asiakirjoista määrättäisiin julkisiksi.

- Mielestäni on mahdotonta, että me nyky-Saksassa piilottelemme asiakirjoja tuomitusta joukkomurhaajanatsista. En voi uskoa, että asiakirjat pysyisivät sataprosenttisesti salassa, Weber sanoo.
Eichmann tunnetaan juutalaisten joukkotuhon toteutuksen organisoijana toisessa maailmansodassa. Hän pakeni Argentiinaan, mistä Israelin tiedustelupalvelu nappasi hänet. Eichmann hirtettiin oikeudenkäynnin jälkeen vuonna 1962 Ramlan vankilassa Israelissa."
AP

Kommentit (10)

Vierailija

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

* Avaruustekniikka: Rudi Beichel, Magnus von Braun, Wernher von Braun, Walter Dornberger, Werner Dahm, Konrad Dannenberg, Kurt H. Debus, Ernst R. G. Eckert, Krafft Arnold Ehricke, Otto Hirschler, Hermann H. Kurzweg, Fritz Mueller, Gerhard Reisig, Georg Rickhey, Arthur Rudolph, Ernst Stuhlinger, Werner Rosinski, Eberhard Rees, Bernhard Tessmann
* Ilmailu: Alexander Martin Lippisch, Hans von Ohain, Hans Multhopp, Kurt Tank, Willy Messerschmittlähde?
* Lääketiede: Walter Schreiber, Kurt Blome, Hubertus Strughold, Hans Antmann (Human factors)[2]
* Elektroniikka: Hans Ziegler, Kurt Lehovec, Hans Hollmann, Johannes Plendl
* Tiedustelu: Reinhard Gehlen

http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operaatio_Paperclip

T-Bolt
Seuraa 
Viestejä3602
Liittynyt6.5.2009

Miten niin "auttoiko"??

Alois Hudal (also known as Luigi Hudal; 31 May 1885 in Graz, Austro-Hungarian Empire – 13 May 1963 in Rome, Italy) was a Rome-based bishop of Austrian descent. He was for thirty years head of the small Austrian-German congregation of Santa Maria dell'Anima in Rome and until 1937, an influential representative of the Austrian Church. In his 1937 book The Foundations of National Socialism Hudal praised Adolf Hitler and some of his policies and indirectly attacked the policies of the Vatican. After World War II, an unrepentant Hudal became infamous for the "ratline" he helped to establish, allowing prominent Nazi German and other European former Axis officers and political leaders, among them war criminals, to escape Allied trials and denazification.

Ratline organizer
After 1945, Hudal continued to be isolated in the Vatican. In his native Austria his pro-Nazi publication was now openly discussed and critiqued. In 1945, Soviet-Allied-occupied Austria forced Hudal to give up his Graz Professorship, however Hudal appealed on technicalities and regained the title two years later.[41]

Yet, after 1945, Hudal regained additional notoriety by working in the Rat-line, helping former Nazis but also Croatian families to find safe haven in overseas countries. He viewed it as "a charity to people in dire need, for persons without any guilt who are to be made scapegoats for the failures of an evil system".[42] He used the services from the Austrian Office [43] in Rome, which has the necessary cards ("Carta di riconoscimento"), for migration mainly to Arab and South American countries. [44]

It is not clear whether he was an official appointee of the Papal refugee organization or whether he acted as de facto head of the Catholic Austrian community in Rome. He is credited with helping, networking and organising the escape of war criminals such as Franz Stangl, commanding officer of Treblinka. Stangl himself told Gitta Sereny [45] that he went looking for Hudal in Rome, because he had heard that the bishop was helping all Germans. Hudal arranged quarters in Rome for him till his "Carta di riconoscimento" came through, then gave him money and a visa to Syria. Stangl then left for Damascus, where the bishop had found him a job in a textile factory[46].

Other highly prominent Nazi war criminals allegedly helped by the Hudal network were SS captain Edward Roschmann, known as the "Butcher of Riga", doctor Josef Mengele, better known as the "Angel of Death" at Auschwitz, Gustav Wagner, commanding officer of Sobibor extermination camp, Alois Brunner, organizer of deportations from France and Slovakia to German concentration camps, and above all Adolf Eichmann, the man who had been put in charge of implementing the murder of European Jewry[47]. In 1994 Erich Priebke, a former SS captain, told Italian journalist Emanuela Audisio, La Repubblica, that Bishop Hudal helped him reach Buenos Aires, which was later admitted by Vatican historian Robert Graham SJ [48].

In 1945 Hudal gave refuge in Rome to Otto Wächter, who had played a leading role in the July Putsch of 1934 in Austria, which led to the assassination of anti-Nazi Austrian autocrat Engelbert Dollfuss. In 1938-1939, he headed the "Wächter-Kommission", the government body named after him that was responsible for the dismissal and/or compulsory retirement of all Jewish officials in Austria.[49]. From 1939 on, as governor of the Cracow district, Wächter organized the persecution of the Jews and ordered the establishment of the Cracow Ghetto in 1941. Wächter is mentioned as one of the leading advocates in the General Government who were in favor of the Jewish extermination by gassing and as a member of the SS team who under Himmler's supervision and Odilo Globocnik's direction planned Operation Reinhard, the first phase of the Final Solution, leading to the death of more than 2,000,000 Polish Jews[50]. After the war Wächter lived in a Roman monastery "as a monk"[51], under the protection of Bishop Hudal. He died on July 14, 1949, in the Roman hospital of Santo Spirito "in the arms" of Bishop Hudal[52].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alois_Hudal

Too many protest singers, not enough protest songs...

Vierailija

T-Bolt kirjoitti: Miten niin ”auttoiko”?

Tuossa uutistoimisto AP:n artikkelissa todettiin:
”Asiakirjat voisivat tuoda lisävalaistusta myös väitteisiin, joiden mukaan Vatikaani olisi auttanut sotarikollisia piileskelemään ja pakenemaan toisen maailmansodan jälkeen. Kirkon edustajat ovat sitkeästi kiistäneet väitteet.”

Kuinka faktisesti edellä linkitetyt tiedot on todistettu, jos kerran näinkin arvovaltaiselta taholta kuin AP asiaa vielä nykyisin perätään?

Tip Vortex
Seuraa 
Viestejä679
Liittynyt10.3.2009

Katolinen kirkko ei ollut monoliitti vaan yksittäiset seurakunnat, luostarit ym. olivat melko itsenäisiä, myös varainhankinnassa. Raha kelpasi eikä itse natsit laulaneet asiasta. Natsit ehtivät rakentaa rahastoja ja pakoreittejä ykkösmiehilleen, suunnittelupuoli oli hanskassa. Ihmisten salakuljetus oli silloin ja on nytkin liiketoimintaa.

T-Bolt
Seuraa 
Viestejä3602
Liittynyt6.5.2009

Suuri kysymys on kuinka paljon paavi Pius XII oli sekaantunut asiaan? Virallisesti paavi oli tietämätön mutta kummasti hänen alaisensa pitivät natsien puolta ja auttoivat heitä.

Tässä otteita kardinaali Aloisius Joseph Muenchin elämästä, joka toimi paavin henkilökohtaisena lähettiläänä miehitetyssä Saksassa toisen maailmansodan jälkeen:

Relationship with Jews
In at least four instances, Muench became involved in restitution disputes between Catholic Germans and Jews regarding property seized during the war; in each instance, Muench sided with the German Catholics, contacting highly placed German and American officials on their behalf.[16] Muench wrote in a September 1946 letter that "some of these gents exploit the fact that they were in concentration camps for their own benefit, although some were there because of an unsavory past".[17] In one restitution case, where a distant relative of Muench had been sentenced by a military court to a fine of 2,000 marks and the return of his business to a Warsaw Jew, Muench wrote "a lot of hardship and injustice comes about because of [restitution resulting from] denazification".[18]

Muench was also an opponent of interreligious dialog efforts that included Jews, opposing the organization of chapters of the National Conference of Christians and Jews (NCCJ) and the International Conference of Christians and Jews (ICCJ), among others, in occupied Germany.[19] In a 1948 letter to Carl Zietlow, a Minnesotan Protestant pastor of the NCCJ, Muench described the organization as unneeded because: "regarding anti-Semitism" he had "found very little of it".[19]

According to Phayer, for Muench as well as Pius XII, the "priority was not the survivors of the Holocaust, but the situation of the German Catholic refugees in Eastern Europe who had been driven from their homes at the end of the war. Incredibly, Bishop Muench actually felt that their lot was comparable to that of the Jews during the Holocaust".[20]

[edit] Clemency for war crimes

Cardinal Josef Frings, who worked with Muench for clemency.Along with other German and American clerics, such as Johann Neuhausler, auxiliary bishop of Munich, Cardinal Josef Frings of Cologne, Muench was "in close contact with occupation authorities, other religious leaders, and the convicted war criminals themselves" regarding the campaign for clemency for Nazi war criminals.[21]

In February 1950, Pius XII instructed Muench to write a letter in support of clemency for some convicted German war criminals to General Thomas Hardy, the head of the U.S. Army European Command, who had the final word on all clemency decisions; with his new appointment as papal regent, Muench was to speak as a direct representative of the pope.[22] In his diary, Muench made it clear that he viewed as "questionable" the sentences of war criminals who had not been directly involved in medical experimentation or other extreme acts at concentration camps or the deportation of people for slave labor.[23] Prior to this, Muench had frequently become involved in individual clemency cases, but took care not to attract undue attention or publicity to the Vatican.[24] As the Vatican urged Muench to press harder against the U.S. authorities, Muench wrote to Undersecretary Montini (future Pope Paul VI) warning him that Rome was on "dangerously thin ice".[25] According to Phayer, it was Muench's discretion that "saved the Vatican from becoming publicly associated with former Nazis".[26] Muench wrote: "I have not dared to advise the Holy See to intervene, especially if such intervention would eventually become public".[27][28]

Muench often preferred to work behind the scenes; for example, a letter from one of Muench's secretaries provided Father Franz Lovenstein the contact information he had requested "with the understanding, of course, that you are not to use his name in connection with any letters or briefs that will be sent to those gentlemen".[29] For example, in the case of Hans Eisle (former SS, convicted of medical experimentation on prisoners) there is some evidence that Muench's intervention with General Clay in the summer of 1948 resulted in the commutation of Eisle's execution (scheduled for June 1948) and Eisle's eventual release in 1952.[

He also reserved for his diary his description of Jewish Germans who had survived the war and resettled in the United States as "alien" and "recent" Americans, disloyal citizens, "in control" of American post-war policy in Germany, and harsh "avengers" against the Germans.[44] For example, when Muench encountered difficulty in 1946 in easing travel restrictions on members of the clergy, he wrote in his diary that the problem was due to "Jews in control [of the] Public Safety [division]".[45] Similarly, Muench referred to Franz Cueppers, a Frankfurt banker convicted of conducting illegal foreign exchange as a "victim of Jewish lawyers".[46]

A recurring point of interest for Muench were what he referred to as "Thirty-Niners": Jews who had fled Germany in 1933 or 1934, received United States citizenship in 1939, and then enlisted in the U.S. Armed Forces—Muench believed—"to wreak their vengeance in every way possible on the defeated foe".[44] Muench's writings often characterized Jews generally, and Jewish displaced persons specifically, to be "greedy, wilfully destructive, sexual predators, thieves, and anarchists involved in leftist activities

Too many protest singers, not enough protest songs...

Vierailija

Tuli vain mieleen, kuinka vaiettuja tai tiedettyjä asioita nämä natsijutut ovat keskivertosaksalaisten mielissä? Kuinka tarkkaan toisen maailmansodan historiasta ja yksityiskohtaisista tapahtumista luetaan Saksan kouluissa, vai onko aihe siellä vaiettu tabu?

T-Bolt
Seuraa 
Viestejä3602
Liittynyt6.5.2009
Tarkkailija
Tuli vain mieleen, kuinka vaiettuja tai tiedettyjä asioita nämä natsijutut ovat keskivertosaksalaisten mielissä? Kuinka tarkkaan toisen maailmansodan historiasta ja yksityiskohtaisista tapahtumista luetaan Saksan kouluissa, vai onko aihe siellä vaiettu tabu?



Voin kertoa omakohtaisen kokemuksen joka valaisee saksalaista asiantuntemusta asiasta:

Olin Berliinissä ja oppaana minulla oli 2 syntyperäistä 35-40-vuotiasta berliiniläistä. Ajelimme kaupungilla ja he kysyivät mitä haluaisin nähdä?

Tokaisin että kiinnostaisi nähdä entisen Valtakunnankanslian paikka koska Hitler oli kuollut siellä.
"Nein, nein, Hitler ei kuollut Berliinissä"
"Ja, ja, kyllä kuoli"
(kiivasta saksankielistä keskustelua aiheesta missä helkkarissa Hitler kuoli..)
"Kyllä meidän mielestä Hitler kuoli jossain etelä-Saksassa".

Too many protest singers, not enough protest songs...

Vierailija

T-Bolt kirjoitti loistavan esimerkin:
Tokaisin että kiinnostaisi nähdä entisen Valtakunnankanslian paikka koska Hitler oli kuollut siellä.
"Nein, nein, Hitler ei kuollut Berliinissä"
"Ja, ja, kyllä kuoli"
(kiivasta saksankielistä keskustelua aiheesta missä helkkarissa Hitler kuoli..)
"Kyllä meidän mielestä Hitler kuoli jossain etelä-Saksassa".

Jokseenkin sama käsitys itsellänikin on ollut saksalaisten tietotasosta po. asiassa. Eipä silti; jos mennään Moskovaan ja kysytään vastaantulijoilta "kuka aloitti talvisodan v. 1939?", 95% vastaajista sanovat: Suomi.

Vierailija

Eikä nykyään Etelä-Amerikassa asuvista saksalaisista kukaan ole natsien jälkeläisiä.EI KAI.Eikä se mulle kuulu ees.

Uusimmat

Suosituimmat